Set Circumstances For Growth- (09/18/97)
Archivist Notes: A large number of titles for
this month's podcast were available to choose from but
after listening to Omal's dissertation, only one kept
repeating in my head and was the natural choice to
use. "Set circumstances
occur in your life that challenge you and make you
grow....". I had to focus
on that this month because
so many things life are mysterious
but knowing the life
changing events in our lives are meant
to be life changing
helps explain reality a little better. Going to school, I faced set
to graduate from
and in each course were set
lessons required through the
that I was required to
learn. That life has set
that are mandatory puts
it into a
perspective that makes
look at it
as a series of
in my path
Sure, why not?
in life is
So it with that Tia starts
the night off for mere minutes prior
to handing off the channeling couch up on the
base to Kiri who as promised in last month's podcast
gives a very detailed dissertation
on coercion and
the morals needed before
even considering becoming
adept at this skill. Kiri
lays out the moral dilemma
that can arise
when someone on the 3rd
dimension learns how
to use their mind to
control someone else. So
are the lessons
given that it
takes up most
of side one and
goes over quite a
allow a safe
use of coercion.
nature of this
morals on the
to help make the
not to coerce
She wraps up
with a look
back at some
the history of
and how one
doing bad but
himself in the
end. Omal takes
over to finish
side one with
be using to the
end of my days
as a template
lays out where
he has been
taking us in
and how he is
on the self,
Side two begins where it is left off
with Omal expanding on how growth happens and why
there is such a need for it. He points our that it
is through our interactions that we grow but that no
matter how many times we repeat the same
interaction, it will be different every time and
that is the catalyst to make us more than who we
were before the interaction. Tia takes the time then
to go through her dissertation of the session on how
desire for something can be a distraction from an
important task. She is speaking from experience
after seeing a dress a visiting dignitary was
wearing and falling so completely in love with
it that it became a source of humor during a
previous session. Karra and I start in on a plan we
had been considering of a new age center but Tia
brought up some problems that would have to be dealt
with first. Problems such as people having the
misconception that a goal of raising human
consciousness might be seen as the beginnings of a
cult. She also pointed out the shyness that both she
and Mark both could be subject to and how Kiri's
playfulness could somehow obscure the message.A
compromise is settled on in the form of a newsletter
and so it is Kiri who takes up the rest of side two
helping with the business side of making that
Part 1 Listen to
this episode (RIGHT CLICK AND
OPEN IN A NEW TAB)
2 Listen to this episode
AND OPEN IN A NEW TAB)
45:59 min. - File type: mp3
33:06 min. - File type: mp3
is on for only the shortest of times.)
(Tia says hello in Durondedunn.)
Russ: how goes it?
Tia: it goes well, it goes well indeed.
Russ: ahh, good.
Tia: okay, let’s get down to business.
Russ: go for it.
Tia: okay first of all let’s start off with the news. Okay,
Al Gore did know what he was doing from the White House was
wrong, just thought he wouldn’t get caught. Hasn’t admitted
that yet however somebody did say that they drove him across
town so he could make campaign calls on another occasion so
he was aware that it was an illegal move. Again the nuns and
the monks in the Buddhist temple, he knew that was a
fundraiser. Okay, Christmas has been canceled. Anyway, in a
serious note, let’s hand over to the next speaker.
Russ: all righty.
(Kiri begins what she knew would be a
Kiri: okay dude.
Russ: what's up Kiri?
Kiri: okay, morals and coercion.
Russ: oh Lord.
Kiri: here we go. Morals and coercion are very important due
to the power of suggested thought from the mind. The reason
being that they are so important is the harm that can be
inflicted on an individual by stray thoughts of a
coercer and the fact that this can lead to an alteration in
a person’s pathway and the life's journey that the coercer
takes responsibility for. These actions have to be monitored
very carefully and stray thoughts from a coercer can cause
problems in such a way that it can be a continuing problem
not just for one life but for many lives to come so it is
necessary to learn self-control above all others. Having
thoughts that interact with other people and being able to
manipulate other people is a wonderful skill but misuse of
this skill in itself can present major problems. Necessary
undertakings of a coercer have to be done with a good and
clear conscience. The important ramifications of negative
actions of a coercer can lead to a self-destructive pathway
of the coercer and the coercee. The responsibilities that a
coercer takes upon herself when she is coercing is something
that the coercer has to weigh with a good, clear conscience.
I repeat those words, with a good, clear conscience. Now
coercion in itself has many different types of usages and
each use has its own set of necessary rules. Let us take
everyday coercion which is the most common that is used.
What is right for the individual and how to use a coercive
beam to control somebody else. Again, it has to be done
with a clear and good conscience, what is right? As has been
stated in the past, what is right for me may not be right
for you or whoever. But, coercion in itself in the everyday
mode is something that does not cause too much problems
because the situations do not arise where serious damage can
be done but damage can be done and it should be looked at
carefully. If you want to coerce somebody to move out of the
way, come to you, to sit down, to be quiet, these are all
useful things of a personal nature. When you have an express
idea to coerce an individual, that is where it becomes more
serious and in its serious nature itself lies problems that
a coercer may come into, a moral dilemma. Now there are a
whole load of morals that are necessary for a coercer to
live by. Doing the right thing, not just the right thing for
herself but for everybody involved. So when a coercer
decides that she has to coerce, it is necessary for her to
weigh what she is doing and to look at it necessarrally to
come to a compromise and in that compromise is the starting
of morals. Moral one, be prepared to compromise, moral
two, do not do it for self-gain. Self-gain has certain
clauses, self-gain and progression in one’s occupation. For
example, a coercer wishes to coerce so that she can get a
better position with more fiscal gain so that she can
provide for her offspring and therefore improve their lives.
This is not a negative use of coercion but, using coercion
way that she gets a willing partner who is easy to coerce to
create a new life within her, that in itself is negative
coercion because that is for self-gratification to continue
a lie. That is not done from love, that is done from lust.
Lust itself has to be addressed as a moral, it has to be
laid out and carefully analyzed. Lust is an interfering
factor that cannot be used in coercion because that in
itself leads to negative actions. Once you start on that
slippery path on using lust to judge your moral standards,
lusting for wealth, lusting for somebody, lusting for a
contented, self-centered lifestyle, these are all negative
and should not be tried because again that affects the long
outcome, not just one life, but many lifetimes. Okay, moral
number three, purity of heart. Nobody that I know has a 100%
pure heart but by using logic and understanding and
reasoning, something can become pure in your opinion. This
is important, your opinion is the opinion that you must base
your moral and coercive attempts upon. With the pure mind
that you perceive that you have, then coercion becomes
easier. Deciding and judging whether something is right,
whether something is of good intent, whether something will
benefit somebody, these are all subcategories of purity in
coercion. Coercion in these functions serves as a useful
everyday tool but not everybody can be a good coercer so if
you’re in doubt, do not coerce. Now specific subjects to
of a destructive nature, I believe my sister has
covered in great detail people of a destructive nature. But,
using coercion is a little bit like talk therapy and again
it has to be done very carefully and cautiously. You do not
replace one set of problems with another set of problems or
as my sister says, waveform patterns of the brain. This is
important to be understood that when dealing with somebody
of a destructive nature, you must know when to say no and to
disengage, otherwise you will join them in their negative,
addictive behavior and therefore your own waveform patterns
in your brain will be changed. This will lead to serious
psychological and mental problems in a coercer. When a
coercer uses these new set of destructive patterns that they
have become addicted to, they proceed down a very nasty,
dark path where the coercion becomes corrupted and festers
within the individual. Again there are certain morals when
you are using coercion for a psychoanalyst purpose. One is
do not use it to start off with. This is because when you
are using it, first of all you have to gain the person’s
confidence naturally without using any coercive skill
whatsoever. Two, if the person does not achieve your
confidence or you achieve their confidence, do not coerce
them. Three, having achieved their confidence, you coerce a
little. A tiny, tiny bit at first so that it becomes a
suggestive thought within their brain but not a command. As
you progress and deal with the problem, now you can start to
insert commands but these commands must be thought out
is moral number four, think out your coercive
commands carefully. When you have constructed the necessary
framework upon which they can build their improvements, now
back and watch your pupil or your patient develop for
themselves. That is moral number five, learn when it is it
appropriate to disengage in a healing of a psychoanalyst
nature. Having let them form new structures on the framework
that you have given them, you can now start to help them to
progress into a more secure way of thinking. By constructing
extensions to the framework that you have created, you have
given them the opportunity to grow. That is moral number
six, aiding in growing what is beneficial for them. Not for
you but what is beneficial for them to progress on their
path and in their progression, they will find that
you are no longer a necessary tool, that you are somebody
that is now a friend. That is rule number seven, letting go.
When the time is appropriate, let them go. Now following
coercive psychoanalysism, coercive healing which is normally
done in the presence of a healer, the healer does the
healing business and the coercer opens up the mind to make
it more receptive to be able to aid in the healing. Aiding
in the healing is very important, it speeds up the process
but it is also necessary for the coercer to understand the
purposes and function of the healer. So we have a moral
here, moral dilemma. Is it appropriate for a coercer to know
anything about healing? Oh yes it is, it is very important,
that is why I’m not a coercive healer is because I do not
understand the healing in my opinion well enough to be able
to aid in the healing process but a coercer that knows
nothing about healing can help to a certain extent by
soothing the person's consciousness and subconsciousness and
distracting them whilst the healer goes about their
business. Humor in coercion. Coercion can be very
humorous actually, not many people realize that a lot of fun
can be had with good, positive coercion. Practical jokes are
something that coercer’s enjoy tremendously and in doing so,
you again have to be careful of planting too deeply within
the subconscious a set of commands. These have to be done
very lightly on the surface but I do not recommend that
everybody goes around practicing coercive pranks, that is
for the more adept and experienced coercers. I enjoy doing
it myself quite a bit actually but that is a hit moot point.
But as I was saying, coercion has a very useful tool in
humor. Being able to make somebody see that what they have
done is extremely silly by making them look without
themselves so that they are seeing
themselves from somebody else’s point of view makes them
realize that some of the things that they have done are very
silly and funny. When you are coercing, regardless of
whether it is, comic coercion, physical healing coercion,
mental healing coercion or everyday coercion, it is
important to remember that it has to be done for the best of
all parties or the individual that is being coerced. Not
for your own personal gratification but as I stated there
few exceptions. One is for an improvement for yourself so
that you can provide better for your offspring or those that
are dependent upon you. Another one is if it is of a
destructive nature and the person could serve no function
from the learning experiences incurred by that destructive
nature. Three, another example is where it becomes dangerous
and the person is not aware that their behavior has become
dangerous because they have not perceived that it is
dangerous but you have. It is your duty at that point to
coerce as a coercer, lull them into a safe or an environment
that is no longer threatening for the group or themselves if
they are not aware or are not suffering from psychological
problems. Lot of if's, and's, but's, or's in there but
they’re all important. Overall, coercion is a great tool but
has the power to corrupt if you do not think your actions
through carefully. Most people on the third dimension do not
have the speed of thought to be able to analyze and realize
what their actions are going to achieve on the instant, they
have to think and plan accordingly in advance. There are
simple structures that can be put in as a tool for coercion.
First of all stop, think about what you are going to do,
think of all the possible outcomes. These three things will
help you decide if it is right or wrong. Unfortunately you
can’t make a decision in a split-second, you can go on gut
instinct but sometimes gut feeling and instinct is inaccurate.
If you’re ever in any doubt, do not…….I repeat, do not…..I
NOT coerce. You have any questions?
Russ: one or two.
Russ: all right first off, when you’re using negative
coercion okay or for a negative purpose?
Russ: is the penalty that you accrue through the use of that
karmically equal to what the negative coercion you are or do
you get backlashed worse?
Kiri: it is amplified, you get backlashed a lot worse, it is
Russ: why is that?
Three: that is because you are sending your negative energy
that creates negative energy from the person that it hits
which is returned with your negative energy and their
negative energy and anybody else’s negative energy that it
Russ: okay. Third dimensional use, for example as you stated
when using it to acquire financial gain….
Russ: you’re still incurring a karmic debt there aren’t you
or as I'll call it, karmic loan?
Kiri: could you expand upon that because what you’re saying
is for personal gain, is that personal gain only for let’s
Russ: let’s use the example you gave.
Russ: getting a better job so that you can feed your
children. Okay now, is that a karmic debt that's
Russ: no? Not at all?
Kiri: not at all because you are in actual fact paying a
karmic debt, you are……because you are involving your
offspring, whether it is one child or many children, you are
therefore providing for them so that they have a better
chance to advance and what you are doing is sacrificing a
little bit of yourself for them so that they can have a
better environment. This makes it non-karmic because you are
doing it for the common good of your children.
Russ: well this is the first time we’ve actually included
children, usually it’s been just you yourself getting
financial gain. If there is no children, wouldn't it be
better not to use it at all?
Kiri: it depends on the set of circumstances. There are so
many different variables that could be interjected. We could
sit here and analyze this one in itself indefinitely. Let us
say you are the best person suited for that job.
Kiri: and that you see that with you doing that particular
function you would improve the people that you are working
for. You would their lifestyles, you would improve the
growth of the organization you’re working for and the
Kiri: the people that are dependent upon them. Again that is
like having children, you are sacrificing yourself for
others, that makes it good.
Russ: I see.
Kiri: when it is specifically for your own personal gain and
your own gain alone so that you can accrue vast financial
gains, then it becomes negative because it serves no other
purpose than for yourself. However, if it is part of a
long-term plan that by making yourself fiscally stable, that
you can settle down and find a bond mate who is willing for
you to sacrifice yourself to continue this function so that
they can raise the offspring or to be taken care of by you,
then you are involving somebody that you are
sacrificing for so that they can be better off themselves.
Russ: I see. So essentially if we're looking at it from a
higher point of view, higher dimensional point of view,
we're actually the ones who are going to judge us in
the long run.
Russ: we’re going to be able to look at it from the point of
view after the fact when we determine whether or not we did
negatively or positively……
e’ll have all these factors to add in at that point…
Russ: so at the time you just work with your intuition.
Kiri: correct. It is something that when you are dealing
with something like advancement within a organization, it is
not now that you are thinking about, it is later.
Russ: ahh, thank you. Okay, now for when using it for
healing purposes…..I’ll go onto that section you
Russ: in which you’re working with patients or subjects, now
the use of coercion will tend to bond these people to you.
Kiri: okay first of all let’s differentiate between mental
healing and physical healing.
Kiri: okay which one are you talking about?
Russ: physical healing.
Kiri: physical healing, I know very little about physical
coercion. That’s why I skipped over it very lightly.
Russ: okay how about mental?
Kiri: mental yes, I know how to do that.
Russ: okay now won't these tend to bond themselves to you?
Kiri: yes but as I explained that knowing when to stop the
coercion is important. Being able to ease the person away
from you is also important and the necessary skills involved
in that. People will tend to see you as some wonderful
person and the normal thing to do is to let them
continue seeing you as a wonderful person and when they find
out that you are fallible and you do make mistakes, then
your image will be tarnished and they may even be disgusted
and turn around and head straight back to their negative
pathways. If it is done carefully and in a particular way,
for example let us say…..let us take a fictional person. Say
I heal somebody that has suicidal tendencies……
Kiri: and they latch on to me. Now I have to make them
realize that I am not all wonderful, that I’m not all good
so I would do things that would raise a question in their
mind. I would discuss with them and as I’m discussing with
them I would insert the thought that I am fallible, that
Kiri Tanaka makes mistakes. So therefore the seed is planted
for them to think that I am fallible, that I am after all
only Sirian and I do make mistakes. Then I would
deliberately make a mistake, just small one but I would wait
a decent interval of maybe a few hours or a few days and
make a mistake and they would see that I make mistakes and
that would make them think with the coercive seed that is
planted, it is like pouring water on the seed that it would
start to germinate and they would still think I’m a good
person but Kiri is after all only Sirian and she does make
mistakes. You see?
Russ: uh-huh, okay…..
Kiri: but it has to be thought out from beginning to
end, from the start of the mental healing to the end of the
mental healing. It has to be thought out bit by bit by bit.
this takes us to my last and most important question of them
all. In sixth dimensional, especially on Sirius……..
Russ: you have schools…..
Russ: that teach coercion……
Russ: that teach all the basics that you just went over.
Russ: we don’t have anything like that down here. Well can
we start something like that down here like for example put
this on the web, this is going to people all over the world?
Russ: well how about people start schools of coercion?
Kiri: yeah, it’s something that I can’t interject. I cannot
say what will work down there, I only know what works on
Sirius and what worked in the past.
Kiri: so therefore I can’t say go ahead and create schools.
Russ: oh I know but I mean it would seem to make the most
logical sense that we put in a theory into an actual
Kiri: well there actually are a search of educational
facilities that do handle coercion or rather they set up the
morals to handle coercion and these are religious,
educational facilities that teach good morals.
Unfortunately most of them are aimed towards making
priestesses and priests but these things can apply.
Kiri: that the morals of being pure of heart and good and so
on and thinking things through are there already. It is just
a matter of being able to spread them and to be able to get
everybody to follow those positive thoughts and to achieve
Russ: okay. That’s fine with me, it’s just seems a little
bit of a shaky institution to be teaching coercion through,
they don’t call it coercion.
Kiri: no they don’t.
Russ: and so you’re not really learning the basics of how to
deal with coercion.
Kiri: no you’re not but indirectly you are because it
teaches the moral structure. I will admit I’m very playful,
I enjoy making love tremendously but I do have very strong
morals. I will not do anything that will harm anybody, that
would I think fall under thou shalt not kill. I will not use
coercion to cheat, I will not use coercion to take somebody
away from their bond mate, thou shalt not covet
thy neighbor’s husband. I will not use coercion to cause
destruction, thou shalt not kill. I will not use coercion
to get somebody under my sway to do my bidding whatever that
is, thou shalt not steal. You see?
Russ: yeah, yeah, I understand that it’s just we had the
same principles we learn in Sunday school.
Kiri: but it’s the principles that are useful. You can take
the 10 Commandments and use them in a way that is a good
moral tool on making the correct decisions for coercion and
by wording them carefully and slightly differently, you can
lay down 10 laws of coercion. They are not suggestions, they
are things that you obey.
Russ: all right.
Kiri: you see?
Kiri: okay, any more questions?
Russ: no, that’s all I’ve got for right now, I'll have to
think about this.
Kiri: hmm, how long did that take? That took up quite a bit
Russ: not that long.
Kiri: well we started that…..
Russ: about 15 minutes?
Kiri: uh-huh, yeah but it is basic behavioral patterns that
are important within coercion. You see coercion through the
ages has been used and abused.
Kiri: on our home planet, Tonar the corrupt, powerful
coercer. Good example, great example. Tonar the magnificent,
also a corrupt coercer, that was after the ascension. (From
Chronicles podcast.) Hurrah the brave, another corrupt
coercer although he did try to redeem himself, that is why
called Hurrah the brave because he did great harm in his
youth but he started to understand the moral dilemmas that
he had created and the necessary plans and actions. Actually
he's a good example of what was thought of as negative
coercion to start with turning out to be good in the long
Yeah but where is Honar the brave here?
Russ: oh right.
Kiri: he’s been dead for quite a few thousand years.
Russ: I mean that he could be reborn and reborn and reborn.
Russ: he must’ve achieved some sort of enlightenment from
his turn of ways and he might be on someone’s counsel now
for all we know.
Kiri: that is something that we would not concern ourselves
with because what he had done in the past he had learned
Russ: correct but that’s what I mean, he went through the
necessary lessons so…..
Kiri: yes but at the time what he did was that he had people
constructing and cutting down and clear cutting an area. Did
great harm to the land and he had an industrial complex and
all the yucky pollution that goes with that but, from the
research facilities and the things that were related to
that came out with good things that were able to clear up
the area that he had destroyed, replant it and return it to
back to how it was. He had done great harm in his first 500
years and when he realized that he was heading on a very
negative path and all these people that were in his
control that did his bidding that had no thought of anything
else but to appease their master, he started to change and
to realize that he had to redeem himself by doing things and
restoring the balance. What it had took him over 450
years to do he restored it in 200 and restored the balance and
also the technological advances that came from his corrupt
period in agriculture, horticulture, all the necessary
interactions with that from that period in his life in the
long run became good. You see they had to or he had to
go through those steps to achieve where he was going so it
was looked upon to start off with that he was doing
great harm but, when he decided to change radically and to
advance towards a specific goal that would be good, he had
to make some very hard and dangerous choices which made him
look very brave.
Kiri: hence the name that he got in the last 350 years of
his life, he didn’t live to be 900 because of how hard he
had pushed himself in the last 350 years. He pushed himself
very hard and his actions were looked upon as very brave and
Kiri: and by taking those gambles and putting in action a
whole load of events that are still even felt today. The
love for the land in that area is beyond belief.
Russ: I see, well thank you, that makes a lot more sense.
Kiri: uh-huh, any more questions?
Kiri: you got questions but you just want to get me out
Russ: well I am a little concerned about time.
Kiri: oh okay.
Russ: come back later if you want dear.
Kiri: we’ll see.
returns to hand off the channeling session to
(Tia says hello in Durondeddunn.)
Russ: hi Tia.
Tia: hello, okay going to put on the next important speaker.
Russ: all right.
(Omal finishes up the side.)
Omal: greetings Russ.
Russ: greetings Omal, good to see you back again.
Omal: yes, thank you. Okay, let us look at Kiri’s
dissertation. Long, very long. Very informative, very
eloquent and a little muddled in patches but it works out
nicely in the long run. There is very little to edit apart
from the little bit of frivolous chitchat in the middle
there. Okay, Tia’s brief dissertation at the start or her
stabs a humor, she should not eavesdrop before channeling
sessions but that is Tia, that is her humor. Okay let us get
down to business and address a new set of topics, a new
subject, development of the self. It is a little step from
what we have been dealing which is self-love, self loving
morals, the benefits of the group, this is now a discussion
or a dissertation on the individual and individual growth,
individual spiritual development. And in looking at the
development and the understanding and the consciousness
necessary to achieve growth is something that is up to the
individual. Is it right to force as Kiri would put it, your
point of view on somebody? That is up to you, that is part
of the learning of self-growth, making that decision. We
cannot tell you it is right or wrong or I cannot. It is
up to you to formulate for yourself if something is right or
wrong and in the growth that comes from these internal
debates and that is what they are, internal debates, is the
advancement. With the interaction with other people, you
grow, you learn, you breathe, you live, you grow and growing
is what all my dissertations are about indirectly. They give
you a framework of patterns as Kiri said, a framework to
build upon and in doing so, the growth that comes within
yourself blooms into a flower which can be seen externally.
The confidence that you walk, the weight in your voice, the
appearance of understanding, the appearance of people
needing to seek you out for your advice, this comes with
self-growth and self-understanding. And with this
understanding and growth, you can start to affect other
people. But growing for oneself is important, to be
conscious of how you interact and develop and the love
necessary for you to advance. Are you awake Russ?
Russ: of course I’m awake.
Omal: you were breathing deeply.
Russ: oh that’s the cat.
Omal: ahhh yes, so it is. But growing and taking care of
yourself. Kiri talks about what is right or wrong for the
individual or the person that is being manipulated but it is
also important first of all for yourself to grow and what is
right to help you grow. Set circumstances occur in your life
that challenge you and make you grow and the growing is
important, how you grow is up to you. As I have stated many,
many times, I can’t tell you how to grow, how you should
grow, why you should grow, that is up to you to understand
and reason out. Do we have any questions?
Russ: yes when you mentioned about the necessary love that
is needed to grow from, you have to achieve that through a
long process of learning how to love.
Omal: correct. It goes back to my dissertation that I
believe you have just put on the Internet about self-love.
Russ: self-love correct.
Omal: and even though this is the next step on and over, it
does interact with my previous dissertations that I have
given in the past.
Omal: and in a way they interact with the dissertations that
Korton has given about communication. If you were to put
Korton’s dissertations, his last two dissertations and my
last three dissertations together and put them side by side,
you would see that there are certain patterns and structures
that are formulated together which set up necessary
structures to be built upon.
Russ: okay, when you speak on the growth and the love
necessary, we’re actually dealing with a question of
strength aren’t we? I mean it’s easier to not love
almost and it takes more strength I think to love everything
than it does to just be ambivalent or…..
Omal: yes ambivalent is a better way to describe what you
Omal: not to love suggests the opposite.
Russ: okay no, it’s just apathetic, ambivalent, just you
don’t care about things, you just deal with them and relate
to them in a way that it’s just life.
the easy way out.
Omal: that is the easy way that achieves nothing, you do not
Russ: right, so you’re talking about actually gaining an
amount of strength as if you're exercising your muscles. If you
go into the
Omal: yes, in a simplified way yes.
Russ: okay, well that’s what I’m trying to work with, so in
a simplified way to let people understand more of how
to take your lessons and how to apply them in their lives.
Omal: correct. In a simplified way, yes but it is a little
bit more complicated than just learning how to love, it is
learning how to interact, when not to love, when not to do
something, when to do something, why you do something, why
you do not do something. It is a set of structures that are
there to be built upon that works for you. As has been
stated, what may work for me may not work for you. They
should be put down as a commandment but we do not give
commands. It would be a good idea to say this is a
suggestion for growth, what works for you may not work for
Russ: so let’s say that you have a person who’s just as we
mentioned apathetic on life in general who loves
occasionally, gets happy about movies and certain events in
his life and things he reads the news and other times it’s
the other way, the other direction. Would it then be an
ideal way to do this is to start a regimen of….
Omal: no, no it would not and this is why.....
when you see
that something is wrong and you set up a regimen, you are
creating strict non-flexible pathways. There has to be times
where an individual hates something and at other times that
individual loves that same object that they hated. It is a
SIDE ONE ENDS
(Omal gets back to
the discussion without missing a beat.)
Omal: how do we do that? Well it is
through interaction that we learn that an individual that
neither hates nor loves does not grow, we’ve stated that.
Omal: but, interacting gives you experiences from day to day
things are different. Let us say we pick up a inscribing
object. We could pick it up many, many different ways. We
could pick it up by the point, the end, the middle, the
upper middle, the lower middle, the middle middle and so on.
We could pick it up from the left, the right and again so
on. These are the same thing.........something that you
do repetitively but it is still interaction in different
ways and so by interacting in different ways you grow.
Russ: hmm. Okay so if you approach a situation, one which
going to be interacting in, is there perhaps then something
to remind yourself that when you go into the situation,
something that makes it more happier than you would normally
would be? Like just a statement……not a statement but a….just
a reminder like a Post-it note on your brain?
Omal: yes kind of, kind of but again it is by pure
interaction. Things change second by second, minute by
minute, hour by hour, day by day. Things interact
differently all the time due to the density of the air, the
lack of density, the humidity, the temperature, the wind,
all sorts of factors interact upon an object or an
individual. The time of day, the time of night, the amount
of sleep, the amount of non-sleep, the part of the day,
whether it is beginning or end and so on makes interaction
different every time.
Russ: how about the strength of the photon cloud?
Omal: that waves and flows and ebbs and grows and dissipates
as you pass through it as been stated many, many
Russ: right so it does have an effect then?
Omal: and interaction is different from moment to moment.
Russ: okay, so basically when we are going to go through and
put this into our lives now….
Russ: what we are doing is we are shooting for growth so
therefore when we enter into interaction then, the best
thing to remind oneself is growth?
Omal: do you want a yes or no answer on this?
Russ: unless you have a dissertation to go with it.
Omal: I could give a very long dissertation…
Omal: but it would be too long at this point. Okay…..
Omal: as I’ve stated, interaction and growth vary from
moment to moment. This is an answer that cannot fully
explain how it works or why it works or how it should work
but it is the best answer I could give without going into a
detailed, long dissertation with no opportunity for you to
discuss it due to the fact that this is the last question.
Omal: that is your answer.
Russ: thank you.
Omal: live long, prosper and I’ll be back.
(Tia's back and can spend some time with
me this time.)
(Tia says hello in Durondedunn.)
Russ: hi Tia.
Russ: I always like making those last questions really good
Tia: uh-huh and long as well. I could almost picture
Tia: okay now it’s my turn. As ring mistress I get to decide
when I give my dissertation or not but first of all let’s
look at Omal’s dissertation and analyze it and look at it
and see what can and cannot be put on the Internet.
Russ: now that you’ve gotten chewed out for that one, where
do we go to next?
Tia: I didn't get chewed out.
Russ: oh which, no I’m not going to forget it.
Tia: what, my dress? (A dress she had seen on someone who
was part of a visiting delegation.)
Russ: yeah, yeah that’s it.
Tia: what about it? Okay, dissertation on longing because
this in itself, my dress, my dream dress, the one that I
want actually opens up a very good moral topic and that is
desire. Desire for something that is a distraction,
something that we can’t have and the want and the lusting
for that object in itself can be destructive. The things
that you’ve pointed out are good examples of looking at
something and wanting it and pursuing it to the point of
everything else becomes irrelevant. This is wrong, this is a
wrongful behavior hon.
Russ: oh I know.
Tia: but it doesn’t change the matter, we will deal with
that and the fact that I’m in love with the dress later on
but what I’m saying is that when a thought becomes
all-consuming that you want one item and do whatever it
takes, it becomes a destructive behavior. And if
you do not figure out all the options that can occur and by
planning and working towards your objective to achieve that
goal but taking into consideration all the other things that
are interactive with that in itself, then you turn a
negative into a positive experience on planning on how
you’re going to get it, what is the right way about going to
get something, not just seen it and going, “okay, I’m going
for it”. That is wrongful behavior because you’re not
thinking clearly. When you think clearly and aim for a goal,
then you are thinking constructively like a good thinking
person. Any thing, any animal, that cat for example, the
feline, if it sees a piece of meat that wants it will go for
it. Anybody can do that, see something and they go for it
but if you think of how you’re going to get it without
jumping over somebody, walking on somebody, whatever and how
you're going to get the person that has it to give it to
you, that’s where you turn a negative into a positive
because you're now thinking of something that becomes
beneficial for everybody involved. By thinking things
through and planning on, “the time is not now, let’s wait,
it’s not appropriate at this time.”, that in itself is a
beneficial thing. Any animal can go for something
straightaway, any animal can act on its instincts, any
animal can act on its hormones and chemicals but what makes
a person better than an animal….and I’m not putting animals
down, I’m saying that instinctual behavior and I’m
differentiating about it….but something that is instinctual,
a desire now to have it straightaway in itself can be
destructive. But, by planning and scheming and
using your brain, you’re working that brain out and by
going about it in a way that is beneficial is great. Any
Russ: well yeah, a lot of times your instincts are
controlled by your body…
Russ: again, it's the same thing with like potassium,
all of a sudden you have an urge for bananas you can’t
understand but "boy that sure does look good".
Russ: I mean these are urges that best are not controlled
because your body often times knows better than you are what
it needs to maintain itself on.
Tia: yes but when you go, "okay I need bananas, I need them
right now", that is destructive because you may be doing
something that is very important and that needs your whole
entire attention and the thoughts of the bananas just
pounding away at you becomes a distraction. Controlling
those urges, controlling those thoughts is the important
thing. Putting them to one side and say.” okay, I will deal
with that later at a more appropriate time.” Hmmm......yeah
but….oh well never mind, I’ll put on the next person.
Russ: all right.
(Karra's uses her channeling time
Russ: hello Karra.
Karra: how’s it going?
Russ: oh you’re just full of good ideas tonight my
Karra: yes thank you but Tia was actually quite correct when
she was talking about things being a distraction, thoughts
that are instinctual being distracting and destructive.
Karra: very well thought out on her part I think.
Karra: okay, I don’t have any dissertation or anything
because we’ve been doing a lot of work together over the
last few days.
Russ: yes we have but very productive work, I’m taking a
Russ: I’m not going to touch anything on the webpage, I’ll
think about it…..
Karra: oh no, no, no, no, no.
Russ: okay but I do have to make that change on your side, on
your section there to fix that coding error that’s got it
Karra: how long will it take?
Russ: 10 seconds…
Russ: well 15 if I FTP it in.
Karra: okay so if you change it, you will mark the time that
you finish and that your computer is switched off. Let’s say
you go in and you do it and it is 9:48 which I believe it is
Russ: 9:50 but yeah, close enough.
Karra: okay, 9:50 on the 16th of September, 1997, you will
not touch the webpage. You can touch and play with your
computer for seven whole days.
Russ: right, so I can't think about it either?
Russ: all right. That’s tougher than actually working on it.
Russ: alright then let’s talk about something that's on
our minds right now.
Russ: you know what that is.
Russ: beginning or working on the development of some
meta-psychic University, school of thought, whatever…..
Russ: class I don’t know but more involved with that
there’s more to it. Well we have a beautiful location up
here, I’m sure we could find an excellent place that we
could hold it in. People would come from all over the world
to come and study in such a place in a way that it would be
very harmonious with nature and yet lots to do in the
meantime when the evening time came.
Karra: keep talking for a second, I’ve got Tia’s talking as
well. She’s making a few comments.
Russ: okay, so what you would do is you'd essentially get on
the web and invite speakers, teachers, students and all to
come to Lake Tahoe to some place that you and I have set up.
Part of that of course would include a web kind of thing
where you could Spiritchat rooms on the web, involved in the
same kind of thing like teaching new age thought or New Age
skills over the web in the cyber classroom you might say.
Bringing in people for seminars, lectures…
Russ: channeling sessions, you know basically having
teachers from all of the world, all of the galaxy, all of
Karra: yes, Tia’s brought up some interesting problems.
Karra: ones that I didn’t even think of. She goes, "what is
the long-term outcome?" And the ones that we’re thinking of
is the advancement of education, the advancement of
knowledge, the advancement of understanding.
Russ: well and also the ability to start gathering groups…
Karra: together yes.
Russ: together or sending people out to begin groups.
Karra: Tia brought up the topic of cults.
Russ: why would that come up?
Karra: because some people would perceive, she put it this
way that some people would perceive what you're try to do as
a cult-like behavior.
Russ: you mean like Jim Jones
Karra: yeah something like that or the Heaven’s
there must be a way around that.
Karra: yes but it is something that would be the biggest
problem and in doing so she said that there are things that
both you and Mark do not desire that would happen.
Russ: yeah, publicity and lack of privacy.
Karra: uh-huh, that’s just one thing but she brought up the
subject of cult leaders becoming not only figures of joking
ridicule but also figures in history, figures
that become religious figures and neither of you two want
Russ: well there is another option that is available is
finding someone who’s already doing that and assisting them.
Russ: for example, remember that place that I read about
in….where is it?
Karra: I remember vaguely.
Russ: yet it was in the Sedona thing.
Karra: yeah, emergence.
Russ: Journal of Emergence yeah and it was about
somebody who is doing something right there. It’s only like
what? Two hours away.
Russ: and they have like seminars and classes and charge
tons of money for it but maybe doing a seminar every other
month or so?
Russ: kind of that thing.
Russ: how it would be not starting one yourself but at least
helping somebody who’s got one.
Karra: if that would be a better way to go but you have to
be very careful about cults. Tia brought up a very, very
valid point I feel.
Russ: well for example those people, they aren't considered
cults, they're considered a retreat.
Karra: uh-huh, yes it would be a something that would be
very, would be better than the way that we were going. It’s
handy sometimes when we discuss things on the intimate mode,
we tend to overlook things....
Karra: and having Tia as an external party and Tia’s way of
thinking which is different from any third dimensional
earthling that I know and any sixth dimensional Sirian I
know. She has a very unique way of looking at things which
is very useful and also the fact that Tia sees things
because of her different perception in a very different way
that she reads people much, much better than you or I
Karra: and the goal that we're going to is being able to
pass out the information. The Internet thing….
Karra: I believe you’ve already got that in action with the
chat rooms and of course the Hades Base News.
Russ: yeah we’ve got sort of the same thing going now.
Russ: and it’s just it’s not as one-on-one as I’d like it to
Karra: no but then…
Russ: sort like one on hundreds.
Karra: yeah but even in a chat room or not in a chat room
but in a
lecture room where people are discussing it is no longer
one-on-one. In fact it is far less then a select number of
individuals being invited to a chat room to discuss with
Kiri or Tia something going on.
Russ: hmm, true, true.
Karra: and when you have 15 or 20 people in a room, not only
the fact that we have to deal at that point with Tia’s
shyness and Kiri’s playfulness or showmanship, we also have
to deal with the fact that the anxiety from the host.
Karra: he’s not much in person on giving lectures in his
physical form and the fact that he would have to be under a
lot of stress and be expected to astral travel and to let in
somebody in an environment that he’s not sure about, would
be very stressful for him.
Russ: oh yeah, in an ideal situation, let’s say we’re in
Sedona or something, it might work.
Karra: uh-huh, in an ideal situation.
Russ: I think we need to do is, do something that start up
various.......hook up with different groups on the net.
Karra: yeah, and also newsletters.
Russ: well we do that with the web…
Karra: uh-huh but I mean…..
Russ: with the Hades Base News.
Karra: but people that don’t have access to the Internet.
Most of the people you know do have access through the
Internet but what about Johnny?
Karra: what about Cindy?
Karra: what about the groups down in Sedona that no longer
have contact with Omal?
Karra: see a newsletter is the first step.
Russ: that’s a good idea actually.
Russ: I guess we could just take, take it right off the web,
publish the webpage maybe?
Karra: some of it yes. One second……really….I know that you
have newsletter publishing software don’t you?
Russ: oh yeah, I did it for Heavenly.
Karra: uh-huh, apparently Tia just told me that Mark is
getting a graphic animation newsletter publishing set up.
Russ: is he now?
Russ: oh I could certainly donate the article but we could
like us say just take it right off the web.
Karra: yeah, but instead of taking the whole entire thing
and just printing it up off the web which would be maybe
once every three months you would have enough for
newsletter, you take let’s say a month’s editorials and news
and one dissertation and then you would have from that your
feelings on the dissertation, Mark's feelings on the dissertation.
If people write in, you would have their letters and our
answers and maybe from Sedona because that’s the market you
would be aiming for it to start off with….
Karra: you would, we would go let’s say, "okay Omal said
this but let’s look at it from line-to-line and what we
think he is trying to say as Omal is known to use analogies
and imply things for our own constructive educational
learning" and how does it apply and interact with a
on a day-to-day basis it interacts what I have found that it
interacts this way, in my life." You see?
Karra: so you take those items and you do it that way.
Russ: how many pages would it be though?
Karra: maybe four.
Russ: and that's front to back...hmm.
Karra: well no it would be eight in total. There would be
pictures, a little cartoon section, something like a picture
of a person with an ax over their head, a computer and the
computer saying, “strike any key to continue.”
Karra: or a picture of a skeleton lying next to a
computer saying, “congratulations, you have now logged on to
Russ: you picked that one out of there.
Karra: you were where it came from.
Karra: but things like that in a newsletter would be a
useful tool and you could put in also a discussion on
astral travel and all the problems that are involved. There
are many different possibilities that you could come up
Russ: hmm, a top 10 list.
Karra: a top 10 list of the most silliest world events.
Russ: top 10 ways to tell if you’re astral projecting
Russ: number one……okay.
Karra: tape should be getting pretty close to being over
I’ve just been informed.
Russ: all right.
Karra: you want to check hon?
Russ: nope, you get a long way.
Karra: a long way?
Russ: yep, a long way.
Karra: okay, so you see there are so many different
possibilities. The university or college or whatever would
be something down the road, something that we work for…..
Russ: maybe after things go kind of worse for wear and
Karra: correct, correct.
Russ: I see what you mean.
Karra: yeah but Tia did bring up a good point with that
little comment about cults.
Russ: right but hey, it’s nice to get that out
where it needs to be.
Russ: because there is safety in numbers and right now, two
is not a number.
Russ: well not unless you count the cats.
Karra: well actually it’s a little more than two.
Russ: I know but it’s still a minimal
amount of what would be necessary to have a viable community
with growth and prosperity.
Karra: uh-huh, there’s somebody else for the newsletter,
Russ: how do we advertise it? Through the……
Russ: Emergence, that would be one way.
Karra: okay, let’s get the business expert in.
Karra: as Kiri comes wandering back over. Okay, I will hop
out and we'll put the business expert back in.
Russ: all righty.
(Kiri returns to share her expertise with us.)
Russ: hey Kiri.
Kiri: yo okay, okay now what are we looking at? Okay
business, business, business, business.
Russ: so we have printing costs, time involved….
Russ: mailing costs…
Kiri: uh-huh, okay.
Kiri: paper, ink.
Kiri: transportation costs.
Russ: what transportation costs?
Kiri: going to the post office which during the summer
wouldn’t be very much but let’s say you’re stuck in traffic
because of roadworks or you’re stuck in snow?
Kiri: now, there is a way around that, to cut down the costs
down is advertising.
Russ: I'll agree.
Kiri: yeah, things that you could add into it is cooking
tips, healthy eating, how to dress a dog properly.
Russ: put it in a little suit with a little hat?
I just thought I’d get that in there because of Tia but
we're running short on tape time.
Russ: okay, what else?
Kiri: okay, now let’s look and break it down bit by bit.
Okay we’ve got cost of paper, cost of printing, editing
time, delivery time, mail costs, ink costs. Now, as it
grows, let’s say you start off with maybe a mailing list of
10 people and you do eight pages in total to start off with.
But you can add in in the letters section which can either
come in through the web and what you can do is advertise it
on the webpage and you can advertise the webpage in the
magazine or in the newsletter......
Kiri: so you kill two birds with one stone. With
people advertising in it, spiritual supplies, you
don’t stick to one topic. News from Hades Base is the
primary thing but you could have things from Celtic
organizations so that you appeal to a larger group
because marketing is the important thing. When you market
something, you have to unless you want to be real selective,
then you have to go for a wider group. If you're doing a
newsletter and you want to reach as many people as possible
with as much information as possible, you have to use other
groups as well. And thinking about it, it could be a useful
tool to have a debate, an ongoing debate with the Arcturians
and the Peladians and the Zeta’s in the newsletter, their
means that you increase the number of people that you’re
going out to.
Kiri: now the interesting thing is, the more copies you
make, the lower the price is.
Kiri: let us say a year's subscription and it costs a
dollar a subscription and you do 12, so that’s 12 of your
and handling let’s say make it 20 bucks a year but that’s
not going to cover you. So let’s say each copy is $.25 so
by 12, right for a year? And then you would do.......well
that would be three bucks a year for signing up for the
newsletter and to receive it plus shipping and handling
which would bump it up.
Kiri: so people could order instead of one copy two copies,
each copy being an extra $.25. Let us say that you're
sending it to a store in Sedona.
Kiri: and say it’s a popular commodity, you could send it
out it at bulk rate which would be like three dollars which
they would pay plus $.25 for each one, let’s say you send a
Kiri: so that they would actually be receiving........or
they would be able to charge what they wanted for it....
Kiri: whereas you would be getting $.25 plus the
three dollars shipping so that would be $25.00 correct?
Kiri: which hopefully would cover the cost of printing and
so on and the tape is almost over.
Russ: we'll have to use our new computer do that on.
Kiri: uh-huh, or use Mark's graphic animation capable and he
turns it into oh FYI file and e-mails it to you.
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